(UFO/UAP) Kathleen Marden ”UFO Abduction: The Betty & Barney Hill Case” pt. 2

[00:00:00] From the darkest reaches of space, to the deepest corners of your mind, Welcome to From The Void. Welcome to From The Void. I'm your host John Williamson. This week I present to you the second and final episode of my conversation with author,

[00:00:29] researcher, and all around UAP UFO expert Kathleen Martin. Welcome to this week's mystery UFO abductions, the Betty and Barney Hill case on From The Void. So, this is where all this information came out, where they remembered that road that

[00:00:58] they found themselves on, that dirt road, and that roadblock had actually occurred. They saw six figures standing in the road in front of them. They were the ones that Barney had observed when he was standing in the field. Betty became terrified.

[00:01:22] She tried to escape from the vehicle, but they intercepted her. Three went to Barney, three went to Betty. That's not what happened in Betty's dreams by the way. And then they were taken from the car. They pointed something at Betty, so she couldn't get away. She lost consciousness.

[00:01:44] And Barney felt as if he was floating. And only the toes of his shoes were bumping along the rocks and then slid up a ramp. And Barney's, the toes of Barney's best dress shoes were so deeply scraped that

[00:02:02] he had to purchase new shoes after that, after the incident occurred. Betty fought when she woke up just before they took her onto the craft. She kicked the one next to her. And this is how her hem was torn down and the lining of her dress was torn.

[00:02:24] They were taken onto the craft anyway, to separate examining rooms. They underwent exams where these entities were extraordinarily interested in their joints, their skeletal system, their muscular system. They took scrapings and skin samples. They took clips of hair, fingernails, maybe looking for what they had under their nails,

[00:02:58] that sort of thing. They took Betty to a table. They tried to remove her dress, breaking the zipper and tearing the fabric in the process. She helped them then. Her dress dropped to the floor. She was put on the table.

[00:03:19] A physician, the examiner, produced a very long needle connected to a tube. And she said, what are you going to do with that? He said, it's only a simple test, like a pregnancy test. It won't hurt. And she said, it will hurt. Don't do it.

[00:03:41] He plunged it into her navel, causing excruciating pain. In fact, this was so distressing that Dr. Simon had to end the hypnosis session early. But after this, the one who was standing by her head did something near her forehead that caused the pain to go away.

[00:04:06] So she began to trust him at that point. That was the end of the exam. She put her dress back on the examiner who had left the room. She was left with the one that she called the leader that she had begun to trust because

[00:04:24] he took her pain away. She saw a book, what she called a book. It was more like what we think of as a tablet, computerized tablet today. It was fairly large, had a hard kind of plastic cover, very thin.

[00:04:51] And she opened it and she saw symbols underneath what appeared to be like a plastic. And she remembered those symbols. After hypnosis, Dr. Simon told her to remember those symbols too. Years later in the year 2000, I asked her to sketch the symbols that she remembered.

[00:05:20] She remembered six vertical rolls. She could only sketch one vertical roll for me from memory. But that's undergone scientific analysis as well because there were two symbol studies conducted at academic studies on the symbols that experiencers or abductees recalled. Her symbols were the same as theirs. Wow.

[00:05:47] Yeah, so another piece of evidence. She wanted to take that book home. They wouldn't let her keep it. She was very angry about that. She said to the leader, I know you're not from around here. Where's your home port? And he produced a three-dimensional star map.

[00:06:14] It was sort of like looking out a window. She said there were, I believe, like a dozen stars connected by lines on that map. I don't specialize that I'd have to sit here and come.

[00:06:29] I don't even know why I'm talking about the number, but some were connected by solid lines, some by dotted lines. And Dr. Simon told Betty that if she could remember it accurately and it didn't trouble

[00:06:43] her too much, she should go home and draw it over the next couple of weeks. And she did. It was in the first book ever written on the topic. This was after the violation of confidentiality that carried their story to the public in a

[00:06:58] series of newspaper articles in October 1965. And then John Fuller published the first book, The Interrupted Journey, with the cooperation of Betty and Barney and Dr. Simon. They all share the proceeds from the sale of the book, which wasn't very much in

[00:07:21] those days when the hard copy sold for less than $5, I think it was. It was not very much. But anyway, getting back to what I was saying, it was there in that book, that Star Map, and

[00:07:38] a brilliant woman from Ohio who was an amateur astronomer, a member of Mensa, a school teacher at the time, Marjorie Fish, who went on to work at the Oakle Ridge National Laboratory after she did this work.

[00:07:53] She decided that even though she was skeptical, if this place existed in our local galactic neighborhood, she'd try to find it. And of course, we didn't have computers in those days. So she had to go to the university.

[00:08:11] She had to go to the astronomy department and borrow their astronomical catalogs. She couldn't take them home. She had to sit there and hand copy all of the characteristics of these stars, all the distance data, the dist, everything that they had about those stars.

[00:08:33] And then she would take them home. And she built a three frame, three dimensional frame. And she used silk line and beads of different colors and sizes to, and did the math to know

[00:08:53] where to put every one of those stars in its proper location and its proper size and color on these three dimensional maps. She built 14 in all of our local galactic neighborhood in all directions from our sun. And she still didn't have a match.

[00:09:17] It wasn't until we made technological progress that she was able to find a match because we had better distance data. It was years later. But finally she found a match. Her work was vetted by an astrophysicist and the statistician, and then another astrophysicist.

[00:09:40] Finally on computerized models two times. And today it still stands as the best identification of the stars that Betty drew. And they have unusual properties. All the stars on Betty's map are sun-like stars. Although only 5% of the stars in our local galactic neighborhood are sun-like.

[00:10:07] The area of space where these stars, the two in the foreground, Zeta reticuli 1 and 2 where Marjorie believed these entities came from, they, now what was I going to say? I'm losing my train of thought. I guess I haven't had enough coffee today.

[00:10:30] So well, what I was going to say is that one of the astrophysicists who looked at this map stated that if we had lived on Zeta reticuli 1 and 2 and we had the technology to travel through space, to explore space, that is the precise route that we would take.

[00:10:56] And our sun is on that map too. And it's one of the ones connected by solid line. So actually two solid lines. So it means it's a trade route more or less.

[00:11:13] So just amazing to me, I would love for our astrophysicists to use their telescopes out in space to look at this. It had previously been scheduled but it was scrapped.

[00:11:30] I don't know if it's such a great taboo that they won't look at it or what the problem is. But as far as I know, they haven't looked at it so far despite the fact that there is this compelling evidence.

[00:11:45] Yeah, I think that's one of the most fascinating pieces of evidence out of any experience. Simply because she had in effect mapped out a star system that we hadn't even mapped out yet because technology hadn't advanced to the point where we even could.

[00:12:04] And yet she is able to sketch out this detailed map of the star system that's later confirmed. I mean, that's literally impossible unless what she said actually took place. So did she ever get a sense for...

[00:12:20] You mentioned the two solid lines sort of perhaps indicated that it was part of a trade system. Did she ever have any indication as to what the dotted lines meant and some of the other markers on the map?

[00:12:34] Yes, Betty had the sense that the dotted lines were expeditions and that the solid lines were trade routes. Interesting. So talk a little bit more. There are certainly some audio out there of the hypnosis sessions.

[00:12:52] And they are at times hard to listen to, especially Barney re-accounting the abduction very obviously upset to say the least when you listen to the recordings. I mean, they're out there. People can find them. Obviously like with traumatic experience and you talk about meeting with this psychiatrist

[00:13:19] who specialized in what we now know as PTSD and all the symptoms that clearly he was exhibiting after this were signs of what we would now call PTSD. So talk about the aftermath. So they have this experience.

[00:13:35] They can recall sort of the observation or the initial sighting of the craft. They experienced this last time. They go and seek help. But clearly at this point, as you mentioned, they're not trying to seek publicity at this point.

[00:13:51] They're just trying to figure out it very clearly a couple trying to figure out what exactly happened to them. And then eventually they go through the process of hypnosis to try to piece together the last remaining details,

[00:14:04] which all seem to match and corroborate what they had experienced from an evidentiary standpoint. So in the aftermath of this, what is sort of the reaction? Do they so oftentimes we hear stories about when people come out with a story like this,

[00:14:24] government officials start showing up unannounced and this sort of thing, sort of not quite the attention that you want. But it kind of talked to people about sort of the after effects of this experience.

[00:14:39] Well, after the story came out in the Boston Traveler, Betty and Barney were extraordinarily upset. Barney at that point had been appointed to the US Commission on Civil Rights, State Advisory Committee. We had been invited to Lyndon Johnson's inauguration and attended it.

[00:15:00] They were actively involved in politics in the state of New Hampshire. Barney had received a reward for, I mean an award for from the archdiocese of the state of New Hampshire in Manchester for setting up a literacy program so that people

[00:15:17] who were illiterate would learn to read and therefore could vote. He and Betty had worked through the Office of Economic Opportunity to set up the Rockingham County Community Action Program and Barney had received an award for that. He'd been chairman of this committee.

[00:15:39] So very actively involved in the state, in the community, highly respected. No way would they ever want anyone to hear about this story, this newspaper. A journalist who had received awards for his work, heard about it from the wife of a naval officer.

[00:16:05] This, these were people who were supporting Betty and Barney. But she spoke, I have the letter proving it. She, he wrote to Betty and Barney mentioning her name, that he had been talking to her

[00:16:22] and he knew all about their story and thought that it was the most compelling he'd ever heard and he wanted to write about it. And Betty and Barney refused. They said, don't do this. In fact, they had their lawyer look into this and the lawyer contacted the journalist.

[00:16:44] But he, he preceded. He contacted Project Blue Book. He contacted NYCAP. He had a lot of information and he wrote five articles, five days in a row, in a Boston newspaper. Those articles carried as far as Australia. I have a printout of that article in an Australian newspaper.

[00:17:15] So now everyone knew about it. Betty and Barney were deeply distressed, especially Barney being a black man working in the civil rights movement and all of the other work that he was doing, his outstanding reputation.

[00:17:31] And he was one who was very concerned about his reputation more so than Betty. And so in a sense, it was tragic. But we met as a family when that occurred and we made a family decision that they should speak publicly for the first time.

[00:17:53] So they spoke at the, in Dover, New Hampshire at the University of the List Unitarian Church to an overflow crowd. They were introduced by the public information officer from P's Air Force Base who talked about UFO sightings in their area.

[00:18:13] And then Betty and Barney went on, they didn't talk about an abduction. They talked about their close encounter with the craft. John Fuller happened to be in the audience. He was an author. He was in New Hampshire writing the incident at Exeter.

[00:18:34] And so he approached them, took them out to dinner, wanted to write their story and ended up presenting them with a proposal. There was a lot of negotiation, lawyers involved. And Betty and Barney would agree only if Dr. Simon would participate in this as well.

[00:18:58] So finally they reached an agreement. He wrote the first book. It's not 100% accurate. There are mistakes in it. The publisher was giving John some difficulty saying, you know, we're not going to publish this book if it remains the way it is. I guess they wanted more intention,

[00:19:22] they wanted him to embellish it to add, I guess they didn't think it was exciting enough. I thought it was pretty exciting. Yeah, me too. So that was what happened. And after that, they continued with their civil rights activities. And everything.

[00:19:46] But after the book was written, they had to appear on radio and television programs in order to promote the book. There were two articles in Look Magazine that John Fuller had written as well. And it was kind of difficult for Betty and Barney.

[00:20:12] They did not realize that skeptics would have the backlash that they had, that these psychiatrists or pseudo-psychiatrists would write articles explaining it in a way using Freudian imagery. I studied Freud when I was studying psychiatric social work.

[00:20:38] I was very interested in them, but not too many people rely upon Freudian psychology anymore. So it was distressing to Betty and particularly to Barney to have this kind of imagery presented and this prosaic explanation. And then the harassment began.

[00:21:07] And I have to say that Betty and Barney had military officers supporting them. They had scientists supporting them. So they weren't left alone. They had the support of our family. But their home was entered. Weird things were done.

[00:21:28] It was sort of a psychological operation to cause them to feel distressed. I, after Barney's death in 1969 from a brain aneurysm, I moved in with Betty. I was in college at the time. She was helping me. I was driving Barney's car back and forth to college.

[00:21:52] Someone entered her house when I was there. Her living quarters were on the main floor. She had me down on the basement floor and she had another apartment set up there. And we had an intercom that went between our apartments that we left on.

[00:22:13] And always the doors unlocked between our two apartments. So I heard what I thought was Betty come into the house. And I was downstairs studying. And every time she came, I would go running up the stairs to greet her. She was supporting me financially.

[00:22:33] She was feeding me all of that. And so I went running up the stairs and she wasn't there. And so I looked around. I called for her. She wasn't there. So I just went back downstairs.

[00:22:48] And suddenly I heard this loud noises, crash, bang, feet pounding on the floor. And I went running up the stairs again. And her closet door was open. Her baseball bat was lying on the floor. I'm glad I didn't open any doors.

[00:23:11] The front door of her apartment was open. The front door of her house was open. Her front gate was open. And there was a man in a suit running up the street. So this is just one example. This is something that I personally observed.

[00:23:29] She ended up having one of the earliest security systems installed in her house. And if her house was entered, it rang into the police department. And I guess this slowed things down. But it was an extraordinarily difficult time for Betty and Barney.

[00:23:54] And then for Betty, as a single woman having lost her beloved husband, the person who gave her the most support, and she supported him as well, to suddenly lose him this way was extraordinarily difficult. And to have this intrusion, her phone was tapped. Terrible things were happening.

[00:24:21] Now was anything taken? Did she notice anything missing after this intrusion? It seems to kind of follow suit with a lot of other stories that we hear where perhaps the government, or at least some sub-component of the government,

[00:24:39] is sort of listening in or has some interest in any evidence left behind and trying to make sure that doesn't reach the public forum. So did she notice that anything was taken during this time? The things that were taken happened at a different time.

[00:24:58] She had just prepared all of her taxes to take to her accountant, all of her tax records. And so she had them ready to take and she went to get them and they were missing. She looked and looked. She had to ask, couldn't find them.

[00:25:18] She had to ask the IRS for an extension. She had to then go about acquiring all of this information. It was very laborious in those days to have to get copies of everything for the IRS.

[00:25:38] But then one day she returned home from work and there were all of her records in a trail, all through the rooms in her apartment. Bizarre. Very bizarre. These things that were happening were bizarre. That's so strange. They were meant to freak her out. Yeah.

[00:25:59] In the years since then, I know she was very active in continuing to tell her story and her story has remained unchanged up until her death. So talk a little bit about what you obviously became very heavily involved in.

[00:26:17] You obviously became very heavily involved in the UFO community and have studied many other similar stories. What are some things that were confirmed after the fact that you're like, oh, hey, yeah, this is very, very similar to what we're seeing in these other cases?

[00:26:34] What are some of the things you learned as you became more involved in that community? Well, I joined the mutual UFO network in 1991. I had already studied under Betty for at least six or seven years.

[00:26:48] And of course, I knew her throughout my lifetime and was aware I'd met the original investigators and all of that and saw them doing their work in the field. So as I was beginning my investigation of this,

[00:27:08] of I, in 1996 ended up after learning everything I could about the case. She gave me the hypnosis tapes and that was the first thing I did in terms of the evidence. And that was, I typed all of the transcripts and for comparative analysis

[00:27:38] it was really difficult for me to listen to those trans to the hypnosis tapes, to the emotion expressed. I mean, there were times when I was weeping over Barney's screaming and then when I had to reveal this,

[00:27:56] it made me feel terrible to have to do this as well. But it was part of the investigation. So that's where I was in 1996 by trying to think. I was investigating this. I was going up to the close encounter route with Betty over and over again,

[00:28:21] recording statements, knowing precisely where they stopped, what they saw, going to the site where they were abducted. And so I did that over and over again. And my husband and I did that as well because I didn't want any bias from Betty.

[00:28:42] So we were, I was taking notes on the landscape of the area, topography of the area of where the railroad tracks were, where the water was, the mileage, how fast they were driving at the time.

[00:29:02] I was looking for any way to discredit anything that Betty had told me. I couldn't find anything that would discredit her story. But I used all of this information because it was a case study that I wrote captured, was a case study.

[00:29:23] Also, I had all of her records. She gave me a complete copy as the trustee of her estate. I had to set up her collection, but she gave me my own copy of all of her records. So I have all of those. I have the early materials.

[00:29:47] I have everything. And I was doing my own investigation. I was interviewing people who were still alive, such as Walter Webb, the original NICAP investigator. And he gave me records that he had. And I had a great interview with him.

[00:30:07] I drove to his house and spent the day interviewing him. So I interviewed quite a few people, stand in Friedman. And it was another one. And then, let's see, it was in, Betty had died. I had written quite a lot of the book by that point.

[00:30:31] I had taken care of her after she was diagnosed with lung cancer until her death. And so many, many conversations and the observation of a few strange things happening in her house too, which you can read about in my book.

[00:30:51] I don't want to take up a lot of time explaining that. But then after her death, I approached Stanton Friedman. I was at Mufan's symposium in 2005. We had done, I think at that point, a television show together in upstate New Hampshire. And so I had known him.

[00:31:20] I admired him. I went to his lectures for many years. I admired how careful he was as a researcher, his level of intelligence, his investigation, his work on the Star Map, all of that.

[00:31:39] And so I did not want to write about the Star Map because I don't take anyone else's information and then report on it. I do my own investigation. I'll take information in original files to the Air Force, to NiCAP, that sort of thing.

[00:32:01] But when it comes to investigation, I do my own investigating. I didn't want to do the investigation of the Star Map. I'm not an astronomer. I'm not even an amateur astronomer. And so Stanton had done so much work on that.

[00:32:18] I asked him to join me in the completion of this book. And he came to, I was living in New Hampshire at the time. He came to visit my husband and myself. He stayed for a few days. He went through all of Betty's files.

[00:32:36] I let him do that. And I let him photocopy anything that he wanted to take home with him. We spent hours in discussion. I think I gave him kind of a rough draft. I think I gave him a kind of a rough draft.

[00:32:51] It might have even been handwritten at that point. I had more than that, but I wasn't going to give it away because I didn't fully trust him even at that point, even though Betty said I could trust him. I was not trusting people who might use me.

[00:33:11] Let me put it that way. Yeah. So I did give him what he wanted to photocopy because at the end of all of spending this time discussing all of this and him looking at the records, we sort of bonded. I trusted him. He trusted me.

[00:33:34] And he told me that he would cooperate in this book because I was being unbiased and scientific. He said he wouldn't have done it if I wanted to write a biased book,

[00:33:46] but he was impressed with my level of knowledge and with the investigative work I had already done. I had even done experiments like on the metal of the trunk of a 1957 Chevy, like Betty and Barney were driving to see if the compass needle would spin and spin.

[00:34:04] And it did not. That sort of thing. So we started to write the book together. Of course, he was in New Brunswick, Canada. I was in New Hampshire. He, I would send him my chapters that he would read and he'd just say, keep writing, keep writing.

[00:34:26] And so I did. I had given him a list of the titles of the chapters and overview of what I wanted, what I was writing about. And I wanted him to write more, but he was so busy with his own work

[00:34:43] that he just could only write two chapters and the preface to the book. But he gave me a great deal of assistance because he vetted my work. And so did Dr. Bruce McAbee and Linda Moulton-Howe as well.

[00:35:00] So it finally turned into a book and became a best seller as a UFO book. So I was really delighted with that. And then I continued my investigation. My husband and I drove the entire route that Betty and Barney drove from

[00:35:20] through upstate New York, Niagara Falls on the old roads when they had not been paved over and most of them, the new roads that were built were not paved over the old roads. So in the same time frame, the same time of year,

[00:35:36] stopping at the stops that Betty and Barney stopped. And we were about 20 years older than Betty and Barney in that time frame. I did this investigation. But one of the skeptics said that Betty and Barney had to have been hallucinating

[00:35:58] that night because they had been driving that long in that far. It wasn't really that long in that far because they were stopping overnight. But my husband and I weren't hallucinating. So I tested all of these skeptics hypotheses to determine whether or not they were correct.

[00:36:21] So I mean, on and on finding scientists, additional scientists that were willing to do an analysis of Betty's dress. Another astrophysicist actually contacted Stanton and she had done a computerized analysis of Marjorie Fish's work on Betty's Star Map.

[00:36:46] And what she discovered was that it was still 85% correct in that there were two stars on Marjorie's identification that might have had better matches for different stars. And but still out of 2,500, 3,000 miles, whatever it was, Marjorie's work was the closest match. Wow. And all done by hand.

[00:37:18] That's remarkable. Yes, yeah, it is. She was so brilliant. So I know we're running low on time here, but I just want to ask very quickly, after this experience, what were their takeaways in terms of like, were there any particular messages that these beings were trying to convey?

[00:37:38] And also I want to remark on the fact that and point out that the description that they give of these beings was not sort of in the public consciousness at that point. It's they sort of describe them as what we,

[00:37:54] is now common, I think within the UFO field as the grace, so to speak. But that was not something that was really out there in the public at that point in time back, way back in the early 60s. So I think that's something worth pointing out.

[00:38:09] But then back to my original question, they seem to have these sort of telepathic conversations with them and there seemed to be some things being communicated to both of them. What additional things were they sort of trying to convey to Betty and Barney? Don't be afraid.

[00:38:28] We're not going to harm you. We only have to do a few simple tests. And when those tests are completed, you'll be back in your car. You'll be on your way. The leader actually apologized to Betty as she was leaving saying, I know that you were greatly frightened.

[00:38:49] And I hope that you understand you weren't harmed. And Betty actually invited him back. She said that she knew of people who were better educated, who knew more about this topic than she did. She was thinking of scientists, I suppose,

[00:39:14] and that she would like to arrange a meeting between the ETs and them. And the leaders replied, well, I can't say that I can determine that this will take place. Maybe it will, but it's not my decision to make.

[00:39:36] And so Betty then said, well, if you can find me, how will you know where to find me? And he said, we can always find those that we're looking for. Interesting. Very interesting. I mean, when you just think about that message,

[00:39:56] we can always find those we're looking for. How? How? Did Betty have an implant? That was the first thing that popped up into my mind is obviously, since then in terms of physical evidence, we've seen lots of situations where potentially there are these foreign bodies discovered.

[00:40:19] In a lot of abductees that seem to be some sort of tracker of some sort. Yes, not necessarily tracker because if they're removed, then these people are still taken. Interesting. And new implants are placed in their bodies. It's more, I believe, a communication device.

[00:40:44] And it tracks the physical health of the body. And it tracks the physical health of the human body. It might be for some positive purposes as well. Interesting. Yeah. So we shouldn't take them out is what you're saying. Well, I don't recommend taking them out. No, I don't.

[00:41:07] And I've worked on three major studies on about 5,000 experiencers of ET contact. I was the Mutual UFO Networks Director of Field Investigator Training for 10 years. Then I was the founder and director of MUFON's Experiancer. It's now the Experiancer Resource Team.

[00:41:28] It used to be the Experiancer Research Team when I was the head of that. One of those major studies we did through the ERT and gave me the opportunity to, and my team too, we now have a team of about 65 people,

[00:41:49] experienced investigators who have a great deal of knowledge about this topic. So that gave me the opportunity to acquire a tremendous amount of information about experiencers and what they have in common too. So it's pretty amazing. I've written seven books on the topic at this point.

[00:42:17] The most recent book, I want to say Extraterrestrial Contact, What to Do When You've Been Abducted, but that's for abductees. It is Forbidden Knowledge. The first edition of Forbidden Knowledge is more about my personal spiritual journey

[00:42:38] and my own paranormal experiences and an unorthodox experiment that I participated in and acquired scientific evidence of. And then the second edition, which I've just recently published, is different than the first, but there's some overlap. This team that I talked about who participated in this study,

[00:43:07] communication study with ETs, we asked over a two-year period 120 questions of this man who was an experiencer and spoke with these extraterrestrials. And 120 questions, 120 of their answers, scientific information, the scientific evidence that we had of their presence, our personal experience with all of it.

[00:43:39] We brought in a second team in the last two years. There were two skeptics in that team as well. And really, I thought that I was never going to publish this because of the unorthodox nature

[00:43:56] of it. But there was so much compelling evidence that I published it regardless of what it would do to my reputation. But most people are in the field, still regard me very highly. So I'm happy about that. And I ignore the rest. Let me put it that way.

[00:44:19] You can't please everybody and I don't intend to. Absolutely. Well, I think I really appreciate your rigor with which you investigate these sorts of things. And especially because you have that first-hand tie to the

[00:44:37] witnesses here. But it's absolutely one of the most fascinating encounters or cases out there. And one that I find the most credible. And I think that's why it's endured for so long and sort of set the stage for a lot of what other people would experience

[00:44:55] since then. And so I really appreciate your time, folks. Go check out the book. Go check out all the books. Kathleen's got quite a few out there that you can check out on the topic. Where can people

[00:45:07] stay up on top of what you're up to and get a copy of your books? You can order my books in all formats from Amazon. Most of them are available on Barnes & Noble's site as well. Other online

[00:45:24] platforms you can order autographed copies from my website at Kathleen-MartinMARDEN.com. And I'll send them off to you. You can read a lot. You can read about where I'm going to be

[00:45:41] on my website. I also have a Facebook page under my name. And I'm going to be at the Mufon Symposium in Irving, Texas right near the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport. In mid-July you can go to Mufon.com

[00:46:03] and read about that. I'm not going to be speaking from the main stage this year. I've done it many, many times. But I've had some health problems post-COVID stuff for the past year or so.

[00:46:16] So I'm taking it easy this year just working from my office. But I'll be there and I'm going to do just a little discussion group with Experiancers on early Sunday morning. You have to pay to go

[00:46:30] to it. The proceeds go to Mufon. Excellent. Very cool. I need to get out to one of those. But really appreciate your time. This is absolutely fascinating and love the work that you do. Thank

[00:46:41] you so much for taking some time to talk to me today. It was my pleasure and thank you so much. What really happened on that night so many decades ago? Did Betty and Barney truly witness a ship

[00:47:01] from another planet? Were they truly taken on board by the creatures aboard that ship? What do we make of the evidence left behind? The torn dress with blood stains on the inside,

[00:47:11] the marks on the car, the testimony of the two witnesses and the desire to keep their experience a secret for fear it would ruin their credibility when it came to their role in the civil rights

[00:47:22] movement. And if they really were the victims of an abduction, what do these visitors want and what are we to make of it all? Since the Betty and Barney Hill case, thousands of additional Experiancers have come forward with similar incredible stories. Are they all lying?

[00:47:40] Are they all hallucinating? Or is there really something happening here that needs to be studied? If this phenomenon is real, then the question becomes, what does the government know? How long have they been keeping this a secret? And ultimately, what do these beings want?

[00:47:58] Thanks for listening to this week's episode of From the Void. If you like this episode or any of the prior episodes, please consider rating, reviewing, subscribing and telling a friend. We'll be back next week with a brand new mystery, and until then, keep one eye in the sky.

[00:48:13] And thanks for listening to From the Void.