The Thurber House w/Leah Wharton & Anne Touvell (Historic Hauntings Series)

[00:00:02] From the darkest reaches of space to the deepest corners of your mind. Welcome to From The Void.

[00:00:17] Welcome to From The Void. I'm your host, John Williamson, and we're going to do something we've never done before. Something a little different.

[00:00:24] For the next several weeks, leading up to Halloween, we're not only going to tell you some spooky stories, but we actually went to the places in these stories to see if we could have our own encounters and experiences.

[00:00:37] We wanted to see, are these stories real or legend or something in between?

[00:00:41] So I looked into the places with the spookiest reputations and dragged my reluctant girlfriend and a couple of my very eager and curious friends with me, and we spent the night at the places we'll discuss over the next several weeks.

[00:00:53] We'll talk with historians, curators, and witnesses about the things that have been reported over the years, as well as what they've experienced, and we'll share with you anything we experienced firsthand.

[00:01:04] To kick things off, I'm super excited to feature a place right here in my own backyard, the Thurber House.

[00:01:10] The Thurber House was founded in 1984 and is a non-profit literary arts center, James Thurber Museum, historic landmark and gathering place for readers, writers, and artists of all ages.

[00:01:21] They're based on the restored 1873 home of humorist, cartoonist, author, playwright, and journalist James Thurber, widely considered one of the foremost American humorists of the 20th century.

[00:01:34] His inimitable wit and pithy prose spanned a breadth of mediums and genres, including short stories, illustrations, modern commentary, fables, children's fantasy, and letters.

[00:01:46] Many of Thurber's drawings and stories first appeared in The New Yorker.

[00:01:49] Some of his famous tales include The Secret Life of Walter Mitty, The Dog That Bit People, The Night the Bed Fell, The Catbird Seat, The Day the Dam Broke, The Unicorn in the Garden, and of course, The Night the Ghost Got In.

[00:02:05] About his personal experience of ghostly footsteps while living in the home.

[00:02:09] So my girlfriend Ashley and my friend Drew joined me on this expedition, and you'll hear from those two as well as two of the house's current and former dedicated employees.

[00:02:19] Leah Wharton, the current operations director, and Anne Tuvel, former deputy director at Thurber House.

[00:02:25] We had a great time exploring the historic home and can't recommend it enough for those of you interested in the history or just checking out to see if you can have your own ghostly experiences there.

[00:02:35] I also want to point out that these places survive off of the generous donations from the public.

[00:02:40] So we'll have links in the show notes for anyone interested and willing to make a donation to the cause.

[00:02:46] All right, let's dig in.

[00:02:48] Here's Leah and Anne talking about their relationship to the house and the stories they've been told, as well as the experiences they've had.

[00:03:05] Yeah, so I am currently the operations director at Thurber House.

[00:03:08] I've been here for seven years.

[00:03:10] Anne and I overlapped for, what, five years?

[00:03:14] Four or five years?

[00:03:15] Yeah.

[00:03:16] Yeah.

[00:03:16] And so I do a little bit of everything.

[00:03:18] I'm here at all kinds of hours, day and night, weekday, you know, weekend.

[00:03:24] So, you know, I've kind of seen the building at all hours.

[00:03:29] Yeah, so I've kind of been involved in the nonprofit arts community my entire life, just kind of grown up in that world.

[00:03:35] And so it was like a natural fit for me and my background.

[00:03:39] The role that I started in was similar to my role today, which is just a little bit of everything, you know, doing events and adult programs and social media marketing, our e-blasts and our museum, just, you know, a hodgepodge of things.

[00:03:55] So we're a very small staff.

[00:03:56] We always have been.

[00:03:58] And so that's one of the joys of working at Thurber House, but it's also one of the pain points of working at Thurber House.

[00:04:06] We do a lot with a little.

[00:04:08] And here's Leah talking about going to work for a place with so many stories and legends behind it.

[00:04:13] Yeah, I knew it was haunted.

[00:04:15] I can't remember to the extent that I knew about, like, its backstory.

[00:04:20] But I did know that it was haunted prior to starting.

[00:04:23] And that didn't dissuade you.

[00:04:24] So that's cool.

[00:04:25] No, no.

[00:04:26] I kind of, I enjoy this sort of thing.

[00:04:28] It definitely does freak me out.

[00:04:30] I haven't quite had, you know, my own really, really definitive experience.

[00:04:35] I've had a couple of really odd things happen to me, you know, elsewhere.

[00:04:38] But yeah, I think the moment it does happen to me, I'll be a little scared, but I'll be kind of relieved that it's finally happened.

[00:04:45] And here's Anne talking about her time at the Thurber House.

[00:04:49] Okay, well, I'm Anne Tuffel.

[00:04:51] I was the deputy director, and I started there in 2006 and was there about 15, 16 years.

[00:04:58] So in that time, I saw and heard and did a lot of ghost hunts.

[00:05:04] And yeah, I believe it is haunted.

[00:05:08] There's a lot going on there.

[00:05:09] That is for sure.

[00:05:10] But I knew nothing about, I hate to say this out loud, but I knew nothing about Thurber or anything.

[00:05:14] Before I started there.

[00:05:16] I didn't know anything about the history, nothing.

[00:05:18] So, but yeah, I did basically what Leah does now, maybe with a couple of differences.

[00:05:26] But same for me as I've been at the house at all hours, day and night.

[00:05:32] Usually everything feels pretty calm at the house, but a couple times it didn't.

[00:05:35] You know, we can talk about that when we get going.

[00:05:38] But yeah, it was 15 of the best years of my career.

[00:05:43] Absolutely.

[00:05:43] Absolutely.

[00:05:44] Within the paranormal community, one of the theories in terms of where hauntings originate

[00:05:48] is that oftentimes there's a history of a traumatic event or events taking place there.

[00:05:53] You'll dig into the history of the location and find out a death took place or some sort

[00:05:57] of fatal accident occurred.

[00:05:59] Thurber House is no different.

[00:06:00] Here's Leah talking about some of the history that may have contributed to the hauntings reported

[00:06:04] there.

[00:06:05] Yeah.

[00:06:06] Yeah.

[00:06:07] Kind of in more modern history, just to put it in context.

[00:06:10] The building itself was built in 1873 and the Thurber family lived in it from 1913 to 1917

[00:06:17] while James Thurber was a student at Ohio State.

[00:06:20] And for those who are unfamiliar with James Thurber, he was a humor writer and a cartoonist.

[00:06:25] He worked for the New Yorker magazine for many years.

[00:06:28] But he wrote and drew and he had a visual impairment.

[00:06:33] So that's kind of one of the things that was a struggle for him throughout his life.

[00:06:37] But he never stopped writing or drawing.

[00:06:39] That's something that we always tell our visitors when we do our guided tours.

[00:06:43] But the home has been restored to look the way it did when the Thurber's lived there in

[00:06:47] the early 1900s, complete with like replicated wallpaper and other pieces of furniture and

[00:06:53] things.

[00:06:54] His original typewriter is here in his bedroom.

[00:06:58] So we, you know, we do all kinds of programs in addition to our museum for adults and for

[00:07:04] children, writing workshops, events, that sort of thing.

[00:07:06] But going back into the history of the building and the property.

[00:07:10] So as far back as I know, one of the stories that we kind of associate potentially with the

[00:07:18] activity here is in 1868, the property that Thurber House used to, or sorry, let me start

[00:07:27] over.

[00:07:27] The land that Thurber House used to, let me start over.

[00:07:32] The land that Thurber House sits on used to be home to the Ohio Lunatic Asylum and it burnt

[00:07:39] down in 1868 and killed seven women in the fire.

[00:07:45] So that was a pretty tragic kind of moment in history.

[00:07:49] And then shortly before the Thurber family lived here in 1904, a prominent jeweler named

[00:07:55] Thomas Tracy Truss lived here.

[00:07:58] He was upstairs one evening getting ready for dinner in one of the bedrooms.

[00:08:04] And he had a gun kind of sitting on his dresser or in his drawer.

[00:08:10] And his wife was up there.

[00:08:12] He picked up the gun kind of jokingly, was, you know, waving it around and showing it off.

[00:08:16] And his wife said, oh, don't point that at anyone.

[00:08:19] Don't point that at me.

[00:08:20] And he said, oh, I don't keep it loaded.

[00:08:22] It's not loaded.

[00:08:23] And to prove his point, he, you know, he aimed it at his chest and pulled the trigger.

[00:08:28] And little did he know, it did happen to be loaded.

[00:08:32] So he shot and killed himself and died in the house itself.

[00:08:37] So those are two very kind of poignant stories that we like to tell as far as the history goes.

[00:08:45] We're not quite sure, you know, who might haunt the building to this day.

[00:08:49] But those are certainly some moments in history that might contribute.

[00:08:55] There's still a lot of mystery surrounding the death of Mr. Thomas Tracy Truss.

[00:08:59] Here's Anne talking about an investigation she was a part of that resulted in some very unusual results.

[00:09:06] From time to time, we let groups come in and like yourselves and do hunts.

[00:09:10] And sometimes they're part of groups and sometimes they're just amateurs, you know, that want to come in.

[00:09:15] And this happened to be one of the amateur groups.

[00:09:17] And there has always been a little bit of speculation that did Thomas Tracy Truss actually kill himself?

[00:09:26] Or was it something a little more sinister?

[00:09:30] So playing off of that, we were up on the second floor.

[00:09:33] We don't know for sure which bedroom was his.

[00:09:37] We can guess.

[00:09:38] But so we were kind of outside of Thurber's bedroom, kind of in that area.

[00:09:44] And they asked.

[00:09:45] We did an EVP session.

[00:09:47] I'm holding the recorder.

[00:09:49] And they asked, Thomas, did you actually kill yourself?

[00:09:54] And plain as day, I'm getting goosebumps right now.

[00:09:57] Plain as day, came back, ask her.

[00:10:00] I don't know.

[00:10:01] Maybe there's something a little more to that story.

[00:10:04] He was still alive, I believe, when the police came.

[00:10:07] But maybe not coherent or, you know, awake.

[00:10:13] But I believe that he died in the front parlor.

[00:10:17] Leah, is that right?

[00:10:18] I think that's what the article said.

[00:10:19] I can't remember if it says that specifically.

[00:10:22] I know he, like, crossed the bedroom and laid down on the sofa and passed away.

[00:10:27] I want to say it was less than an hour after the incident.

[00:10:30] I do know, though, speaking of the parlor, that they held his funeral in the parlor.

[00:10:36] That must be what it was.

[00:10:38] Yeah, that is definitely mentioned in the newspaper article.

[00:10:43] Yeah.

[00:10:44] So, you know, who knows?

[00:10:45] There's you can go actually and see his grave.

[00:10:49] He is at he's not at Greenlawn.

[00:10:52] What?

[00:10:52] I'm sorry.

[00:10:53] Union Cemetery.

[00:10:54] I believe he's at Union Cemetery.

[00:10:56] He is.

[00:10:56] He is actually at Greenlawn.

[00:10:58] I have seen.

[00:10:58] Is he at Greenlawn?

[00:10:59] I've been there, but.

[00:11:00] He's a part of the Ferber family plot.

[00:11:02] Oh, interesting.

[00:11:04] Okay.

[00:11:05] Yeah.

[00:11:06] Uh, yeah.

[00:11:07] Okay.

[00:11:07] Sorry.

[00:11:08] Yes, that's right.

[00:11:09] We also had our own experience in the very same room.

[00:11:12] Early on in the evening, we set up a digital recorder.

[00:11:15] Ashley was sitting on the floor with her back closest to the door by the stairwell.

[00:11:19] I was seated to her left and Drew was sitting closer to the window.

[00:11:23] At one point, as we're just sitting in silence, taking in our surroundings, Drew and I both heard what sounded like a murmur.

[00:11:29] Fortunately, we were able to capture it on our recorder.

[00:11:32] It's very faint, but we'll let you decide.

[00:11:34] To us, it sounds female, but it's very faint and hard to say.

[00:11:39] Here's the clip.

[00:11:40] If you have headphones and are sitting in a quiet setting, it's a good time to turn up the volume and maybe listen a couple of times.

[00:12:00] Hopefully you were able to make out the murmur.

[00:12:02] It's very faint, like I said, but is it paranormal?

[00:12:05] It's impossible to say, but it's certainly unusual.

[00:12:08] There's still a lot of mystery surrounding the fate of Thomas Tracy Truss.

[00:12:12] Could it be his wife that we heard?

[00:12:14] Hard to say, but here is Anne talking about some other experiences she had during her time at the Thurber House.

[00:12:21] Okay, well, I wrote down about eight of them, so I'm trying to think about which ones.

[00:12:26] Actually, I can probably do it all in a reasonable amount of time.

[00:12:30] So I'm just going to start, you know, in the first year that I was there, I did a few more ghost hunts with people until it got tiresome for me to have to be the one to spend the night with them every single time I did one.

[00:12:42] But one of the very first experiences we had, it got on about 3 a.m., and nothing was happening.

[00:12:50] It was over.

[00:12:51] I'm like, okay, it's time to go.

[00:12:54] And the gentleman that was with us was sitting on the stairs that go up into the attic apartment.

[00:12:59] And he goes, okay, we're going to leave, and we're going to leave you alone.

[00:13:02] But if you would allow us to just have one picture, and then we will go, and we'll leave you alone.

[00:13:10] And he snapped a series of shots up the stairs, and I wish I had this photo now.

[00:13:15] But there in one of the photos was a full-body apparition of a woman.

[00:13:21] And you saw a leg.

[00:13:23] You saw like an arm and shoulders, and then down kind of the other side.

[00:13:27] You know, not a perfect apparition, but you could tell that it was a woman.

[00:13:33] And we were all just stunned.

[00:13:35] And then we got the H out of there pretty quick.

[00:13:38] Yeah.

[00:13:39] But because they delivered.

[00:13:41] Whoever that was delivered, so we got out of there.

[00:13:44] So other things like that.

[00:13:45] I've had some pretty extraordinary things like that happen over the time that I was there.

[00:13:51] A couple in particular, a good friend and I were walking down the hall.

[00:13:56] And this happened not long, actually, before I moved on to another job.

[00:14:02] And we're walking down the hall past Thurber's room.

[00:14:07] My office was William's room.

[00:14:09] And we were coming back down to my office.

[00:14:11] We were getting ready to leave.

[00:14:12] And all of a sudden, Christy looks down.

[00:14:14] Well, that's her name, Christy.

[00:14:15] She looks down and sees something.

[00:14:18] Like she said she described it as like a blob that you could see through.

[00:14:22] It cast a shadow.

[00:14:24] But it was just sort of floating along there about shin level.

[00:14:29] And I turned around and said, oh, no, I don't see anything.

[00:14:31] And then right as she lost sight of it, I picked up sight of it.

[00:14:36] And it actually turned the corner.

[00:14:38] You know how the hall upstairs kind of makes a little bend.

[00:14:42] And it went around the bend.

[00:14:44] And as it passed me, I got cold on the side that it was facing it.

[00:14:50] And then all of a sudden, it lifted up about probably hip level and then popped in a flash of light.

[00:14:59] Oh, that's crazy.

[00:15:00] And I'll just tell you what Christy said.

[00:15:02] She doesn't want anything to do with any of this at all, period.

[00:15:06] So she said, get my shit and bring it to me outside.

[00:15:10] I'm out of here.

[00:15:11] Yeah.

[00:15:12] Most of my friends, I think, would have said something similar to that.

[00:15:14] Yeah.

[00:15:14] It was a wild experience.

[00:15:17] And we have dissected it to this day and just don't know.

[00:15:21] But we have heard that one of Thurber's dogs did like to patrol the second floor.

[00:15:27] So maybe it was one of his dogs.

[00:15:29] I'm going to say this out loud, too.

[00:15:31] I do not believe James Thurber haunts Thurber House.

[00:15:33] I'm just going to say that for the record.

[00:15:35] But maybe one of those dogs, somebody's dog over time, over the people that live there, maybe.

[00:15:41] But so that was a pretty substantial happening.

[00:15:46] And then I've heard my name called from the attic twice.

[00:15:51] Luckily, it was not in my voice.

[00:15:54] I probably there would have been an and-sized shaped hole out the wall if I would have heard my own voice coming from the attic because I've heard that's a thing.

[00:16:02] But another one, I'm sitting at my desk.

[00:16:06] I'm the only one in the building.

[00:16:07] And all of a sudden, the light in the hallway starts to, like, sputter and make, like, an electronic or, you know, like an electric noise.

[00:16:15] Like, and then it sounded like everything on one of my colleagues' desks in the office across the hall fell on the floor, like a huge pile.

[00:16:25] And I'm like, oh, my gosh.

[00:16:26] And I went in there and I'm like, I thought maybe Meg or somebody else had come back.

[00:16:31] And I go in there and nothing.

[00:16:34] There's absolutely nothing.

[00:16:36] Nothing had fallen on the floor.

[00:16:38] And those, the two that shared that office were way cleaner than me.

[00:16:41] So there weren't even piles on their desk.

[00:16:43] So I'm like, oh, okay.

[00:16:45] Well, I just went, okay, great.

[00:16:47] Just went back to my office.

[00:16:49] Nothing else happened.

[00:16:52] But probably besides the dowsing rod that I mentioned, well, I guess I didn't say that during the recording.

[00:16:58] We did a dowsing rod session in the front parlor and got pretty definitive answers from who we believe was Mrs. Murphy, who was one of the women who were killed in the fire.

[00:17:08] I think she might have been the oldest.

[00:17:10] I think she was 90.

[00:17:13] And how when we were finished with this session, one of my ghost hunting buddies said, Mrs. Murphy, if you want to come with us on the tour, you're more than welcome.

[00:17:22] I'm snapping photos as she's saying that from the top of the stairs.

[00:17:26] And there is a line, like a glowing line that comes out of the parlor.

[00:17:32] Looks like it sort of bounces off the floor in kind of a mist and then comes up the stairs.

[00:17:37] It wasn't in any of the other shots, just the one.

[00:17:40] And we figure, okay, Mrs. Murphy's going to come on the tour with us.

[00:17:45] Still scary.

[00:17:47] Still scary because you honestly, you really never know what you're dealing with.

[00:17:51] You just don't.

[00:17:53] But, okay, so I'll tell this last one and then I'll let Leah do her thing.

[00:17:58] But James Willis, every year, he's one of my all-time favorite Ohioans, authors.

[00:18:04] We just saw him.

[00:18:05] Yeah.

[00:18:06] Oh, he's, I love him.

[00:18:08] He's very generous with his time and his techniques.

[00:18:11] Oh, he's a sweetheart.

[00:18:11] And he is.

[00:18:12] He's great.

[00:18:13] Yeah.

[00:18:13] So every year he allows us to, and I think maybe they still do it, Leah.

[00:18:18] Yes?

[00:18:19] Yeah.

[00:18:20] The raffle?

[00:18:20] Yeah.

[00:18:21] Okay, so we raffle off.

[00:18:22] Yeah.

[00:18:23] We raffle off a chance to do a ghost hunt with him on the night the ghost got in.

[00:18:29] So, like, he puts you on the stairs at that exact moment when Thurber heard the footsteps coming up the stairs.

[00:18:39] And so when I started, we had done it a couple times.

[00:18:45] And the first year, nothing really happened.

[00:18:47] The people weren't really into it.

[00:18:49] So it just didn't kind of, nothing sort of happened.

[00:18:52] But the next year, when I said that sometimes the house feels great, sometimes the house feels not so great, this was a time, weirdly, that the house felt not so great to me.

[00:19:03] And I got there in the evening to open up the house and get all the lights on for their team and for our guests to come.

[00:19:11] And I walked in the back door and turned the alarm off.

[00:19:16] And then I'm like, whew, I'm not going to walk any further than this door, than this threshold into where the bookstore was.

[00:19:23] And I'm like, I'm not going to do that.

[00:19:25] In fact, I'm going to go stand out back.

[00:19:27] And for some reason, my fight or flight kicked in and I sat on the back porch until his team got there.

[00:19:34] Now, I don't know if that's just because the house was so charged and for what was going to come later.

[00:19:40] I'll just say that it was probably that.

[00:19:43] Because I will also say, I don't feel like there's anything sinister, really, at Thurber House.

[00:19:49] Maybe other people have had different experiences, but I feel like if it's anything, it's playful or it just wants to tell its story.

[00:19:57] So they got there.

[00:19:58] We set up.

[00:19:59] Here we come to the night the ghost got in at the exact hour.

[00:20:04] And we put them on the stairs.

[00:20:06] We are in the front parlor.

[00:20:09] And they have microphones, like the really fancy microphones, set up at the top of the stairs, one at the bottom of the stairs in the gift shop area,

[00:20:19] one across the gift shop area, and one sitting in the front parlor.

[00:20:26] So we were between the microphone in the bookstore and the front parlor.

[00:20:32] And we're sitting there.

[00:20:33] It's dead quiet.

[00:20:34] And waiting for them to have – for something to, you know, maybe happen up there.

[00:20:38] And all of a sudden we hear them, the two winners go, do you think they're packing up?

[00:20:45] Is it done?

[00:20:46] Should we go downstairs?

[00:20:46] And we're like, what are they talking about?

[00:20:50] So when it's over, they come back down.

[00:20:53] And they said – they heard us dragging equipment across the floor, moving back and forth very quickly.

[00:21:01] And they said, we thought you were packing up.

[00:21:03] We thought the ghost hunt was done.

[00:21:04] And you guys were packing up everything.

[00:21:08] And Jim goes, no, not at all.

[00:21:11] And I think he calls – I think when something this peculiar happens, he calls it a two-bottle conversation, like two bottles of wine to get to it.

[00:21:20] And so here's what happened.

[00:21:23] They heard at the top of the stairs commotion, all kinds of commotion, doors opening and closing, things being dragged across the floor.

[00:21:31] They heard that at the top of the stairs.

[00:21:34] We heard nothing.

[00:21:36] It was silent.

[00:21:38] But the microphones all picked it up, including the one in the front parlor.

[00:21:44] So – and when we went back and listened to it, he brought us copies of the recordings.

[00:21:49] It straight up sounds like people walking back and forth very quickly, a big heavy door.

[00:21:57] It sounded almost like a big metal door closing and like paper shuffling and something very large being dragged across the floor.

[00:22:08] And we didn't hear it in real life.

[00:22:10] But they did.

[00:22:11] But the microphones got it.

[00:22:13] And it will forever perplex me.

[00:22:15] But what it sounds like to me is the night of a fire, people trying to save records, people trying to get out, get out what they can.

[00:22:24] So, I mean, you be the judge.

[00:22:26] But that was phenomenal.

[00:22:28] So I want to point out that the third floor is very different from the rest of the house.

[00:22:32] Here's Leah describing what makes it unique compared to the other two floors.

[00:22:36] So the third floor, unlike the first two floors, which are the museums, the first two floors have been restored to look the way that they did in the early 1900s.

[00:22:47] Whereas the third floor, which used to be the attic space and James Thurber's grandfather would often stay up there.

[00:22:53] That has been turned into an apartment for visiting writers.

[00:22:57] So authors who do events with us and authors who do residencies here get to stay up there.

[00:23:03] So it's all modern.

[00:23:05] There are two bedrooms, a living room, kitchen, bathroom space.

[00:23:09] But that's where you were when you had your experience.

[00:23:13] So you take it away.

[00:23:15] So here's where our evening got a little interesting.

[00:23:17] We decided to go up to the third floor and do a spirit box session, specifically where previous visitors had reported having had experiences in the living room area.

[00:23:27] We sat up on the couch and used a method commonly called the Estes method.

[00:23:31] Basically, it's where the person who is listening to the responses from the spirit box does so through noise canceling headphones and blindfolded.

[00:23:39] The idea behind this is that, number one, they won't be influenced by being able to hear the questions the other investigators are asking.

[00:23:46] And number two, that it will eliminate some of their other senses in order to heighten their sense of hearing.

[00:23:52] Ashley is always the listener, mostly because Drew and I have horrible hearing.

[00:23:57] And if I haven't already mentioned, I'm a bit skeptical in terms of the results you get from spirit box sessions.

[00:24:03] A spirit box is basically a transistor radio with a sweep function.

[00:24:07] So it basically is quickly scanning through the frequencies.

[00:24:10] And the idea there is that the spirit can pull words and phrases from the various frequencies and thereby communicate by giving answers to your questions.

[00:24:19] And generally speaking, we usually either get like big gaps in time with nothing or utter nonsense until this particular session.

[00:24:27] I had Leah and Anne talk about the history that predates the Thurber house for a reason.

[00:24:31] The reason being that at the time of our spirit box session, we immediately got responses.

[00:24:35] But the responses that we got at the time didn't make much sense to us.

[00:24:40] We actually started Googling in real time to see what they meant or if they meant anything at all.

[00:24:44] And started to uncover the history of the land and the fact that the Ohio Lunatic Asylum was originally on the same property and had burned to the ground,

[00:24:52] killing anywhere between six to seven women, depending on which account you read, by way specifically of smoke inhalation.

[00:25:00] So keep that in mind as I play this clip of our session.

[00:25:05] Hang on.

[00:25:06] Ashley, John and Drew up on the third floor living room about to do a spirit box session.

[00:25:15] Here we go.

[00:25:16] Here we go.

[00:25:22] Is there anyone here with us?

[00:25:32] Is there anyone here from the days of the insane asylum?

[00:25:38] Are you afraid to talk to us?

[00:25:45] You.

[00:25:48] Are you the reason that the dog was barking at this couch?

[00:25:56] Did the dog see you?

[00:25:59] My apartment.

[00:26:01] My apartment.

[00:26:01] This was your apartment?

[00:26:04] You lived here?

[00:26:06] Yes, but they're not.

[00:26:11] Sometimes you get absolutely nonsense.

[00:26:14] My apartment.

[00:26:16] That's kind of interesting, though.

[00:26:17] Mine, mine, mine.

[00:26:19] This was yours?

[00:26:21] Do you not like it when other people stay here?

[00:26:24] I used to go to the lake.

[00:26:26] It was I used to go, and then the next one was to the lake.

[00:26:31] Hmm.

[00:26:34] What lake?

[00:26:37] That is interesting, Drew.

[00:26:39] Because if that came in two parts, pretty random that that fit together into a...

[00:26:45] Yeah.

[00:26:45] You know?

[00:26:46] Yeah.

[00:26:49] Third floor.

[00:26:52] Third floor.

[00:26:52] Okay.

[00:26:55] What about the...

[00:26:55] What's up?

[00:26:56] That was my chair squeaking.

[00:26:58] What about the third floor?

[00:27:03] Testosterone!

[00:27:05] You don't like men up here?

[00:27:07] Are you a woman?

[00:27:10] Did you die in the fire?

[00:27:15] Fire.

[00:27:17] You died in the fire?

[00:27:19] Were you...

[00:27:19] Terrifying.

[00:27:20] Oh, wow.

[00:27:22] True.

[00:27:23] How many people died in the fire?

[00:27:27] Were you a patient here?

[00:27:29] You said you were terrified, but you were terrified of the fire?

[00:27:33] Is there anything else you want to tell us?

[00:27:35] The room with the light on.

[00:27:37] Are you in the room with the light on?

[00:27:39] Are you on the fire escape?

[00:27:42] My father had...

[00:27:47] Did your father...

[00:27:48] Did you live here with your father?

[00:27:49] 8-8-17.

[00:27:54] Are you saying August 8th, 1917?

[00:27:58] What else...

[00:27:59] What else would you like to share with us?

[00:28:01] Do you stay up here?

[00:28:03] In this apartment?

[00:28:05] Is this where you're...

[00:28:08] You're here right now?

[00:28:16] And then he died.

[00:28:19] And then who died?

[00:28:21] Your father?

[00:28:23] Did your father die in the fire?

[00:28:25] Or did you die in the fire?

[00:28:29] That's not us.

[00:28:32] Okay.

[00:28:34] So you guys didn't die in the fire.

[00:28:36] Did you live here after the fire?

[00:28:39] Thousands.

[00:28:42] Laying dead.

[00:28:48] Thousands died in the fire?

[00:28:51] Michael.

[00:28:52] Man, that's interesting.

[00:28:55] Is your name Michael?

[00:28:58] Be gone.

[00:28:59] You want us to leave?

[00:29:01] Now in fire.

[00:29:04] Do you have anything else you want to tell us?

[00:29:06] Smoke inhalation.

[00:29:09] Did you die of smoke inhalation?

[00:29:12] It's got to be a patient who died in the fire, right?

[00:29:16] Yeah.

[00:29:20] How did the fire start?

[00:29:22] Promises.

[00:29:23] Five.

[00:29:25] You must have been very scared.

[00:29:29] Dying of smoke inhalation does not sound fun.

[00:29:33] God.

[00:29:35] Are you the only one here with us?

[00:29:36] Or is there other, are there other people here with us?

[00:29:43] Sure.

[00:29:44] Ring.

[00:29:44] Oh, God.

[00:29:45] How many other people are here with us right now?

[00:29:49] 379.

[00:29:54] 379 people are here with us right now?

[00:29:57] A lot of people with a small room.

[00:29:59] Yeah.

[00:29:59] Was that the capacity at the Lunatic Asylum?

[00:30:02] Is that how many patients were there?

[00:30:08] Can one of you make a noise for us so we can hear that you're here with us?

[00:30:12] Okay.

[00:30:14] Music.

[00:30:16] Until that time...

[00:30:18] Do you miss people staying up here in this apartment?

[00:30:21] The asylum housed.

[00:30:22] There was just a man laughing.

[00:30:24] Like, ha, ha, ha, ha.

[00:30:27] How many drew?

[00:30:28] More than 300 patients.

[00:30:29] Shut up.

[00:30:33] Is that what you were telling us?

[00:30:35] 379 patients were housed at the Ohio Lunatic Asylum?

[00:30:39] The fire took place on the night of November.

[00:30:42] Battling painful.

[00:30:45] Panic.

[00:30:46] The fire was on November 18th, 1868.

[00:30:54] A majority of the building was destroyed by fire.

[00:30:57] The fire began in the clothing room in the east wing.

[00:31:00] Is this correct?

[00:31:02] The bright side.

[00:31:03] How many people?

[00:31:04] Six female patients in nearby rooms died of smoke inhalation.

[00:31:09] Is this what you're telling us?

[00:31:11] Are you reading over my shoulder or do you know this story?

[00:31:16] But the remaining 308 patients were safely evacuated by asylum staff and nearby citizens who saw the flames and came to help.

[00:31:28] How many people were evacuated?

[00:31:29] Much about her daughter.

[00:31:32] Bible.

[00:31:33] Bible.

[00:31:34] Hmm.

[00:31:36] Is there a Bible in this room?

[00:31:40] Yeah.

[00:31:42] Where is it located?

[00:31:44] I helped her learn.

[00:31:47] Were you a patient here that helped somebody learn?

[00:31:50] That you helped teach somebody?

[00:31:52] Were you a staff member?

[00:31:57] Some of them.

[00:32:03] Were you a staff member here?

[00:32:05] Maybe a nurse?

[00:32:07] I'm looking at a name on my phone of someone who died in the fire.

[00:32:12] Can you tell me that name?

[00:32:16] John doesn't know this name.

[00:32:18] Neither does Ashley.

[00:32:20] It's true.

[00:32:21] Can you tell me?

[00:32:21] On radio.

[00:32:25] Yeah, can you use the radio to tell us?

[00:32:28] She died.

[00:32:30] The days?

[00:32:30] And that's when she told me, in the manner that...

[00:32:35] What did she tell you?

[00:32:40] Outside.

[00:32:43] She told you to go outside?

[00:32:45] It was a...

[00:32:45] Kathleen.

[00:32:47] Open up.

[00:32:49] Uh, how about the door to the fire escape?

[00:32:53] There it is.

[00:32:54] Right there.

[00:32:56] Get out.

[00:32:59] Do you want us to get out?

[00:33:00] Are you saying you guys had to get out?

[00:33:02] Company.

[00:33:03] One.

[00:33:04] My...

[00:33:05] My...

[00:33:06] Running away from the...

[00:33:08] Hill or who?

[00:33:12] Evil...

[00:33:12] 24.

[00:33:16] That's Drew shutting the door.

[00:33:20] Get away.

[00:33:21] You want us to get away?

[00:33:24] I'm talking to you.

[00:33:26] I cried.

[00:33:30] What made you cry?

[00:33:32] An alarm.

[00:33:34] Was the alarm to warn you of the fire?

[00:33:38] 23122.

[00:33:40] What's the significance...

[00:33:42] Significance of that number?

[00:33:43] Well...

[00:33:44] What do you want to...

[00:33:45] What do you want us to know about it?

[00:33:47] For three decades.

[00:33:52] You've been here for three decades?

[00:33:54] Something wrong.

[00:33:57] Over the table?

[00:33:59] Can you tell us why you're still...

[00:34:01] Why you are still here?

[00:34:03] The night shift.

[00:34:05] Were you a night shift nurse?

[00:34:07] Show me you!

[00:34:09] I am.

[00:34:10] I'm right here.

[00:34:11] Show me you.

[00:34:14] What?

[00:34:15] Is Robert here with us?

[00:34:18] Robert Thurber?

[00:34:20] I get the feeling that you're a very religious person.

[00:34:24] Is that true?

[00:34:26] Very good.

[00:34:28] Hmm.

[00:34:29] Pitch black.

[00:34:30] Is someone talking?

[00:34:34] Yeah, we're trying to talk to you.

[00:34:36] What's your name?

[00:34:39] My name is Drew.

[00:34:41] My name is John.

[00:34:43] What's your name?

[00:34:44] I wasn't trying to...

[00:34:49] I'm old.

[00:34:52] It's okay.

[00:34:53] We'd still like to talk to you.

[00:34:54] And learn about you.

[00:34:58] For a long time.

[00:35:00] Heat.

[00:35:02] Is that what you experienced here?

[00:35:03] Breathe.

[00:35:04] We'll try to figure it out.

[00:35:07] Okay.

[00:35:09] Something's really wrong.

[00:35:11] Can you tell me where you were born?

[00:35:16] Right now.

[00:35:20] Columbus.

[00:35:20] Yes.

[00:35:22] Hopefully you enjoyed those highlights from our spirit box session.

[00:35:25] Once again, hard to say it was paranormal, but certainly interesting.

[00:35:28] As we got words like fire, heat, smoke inhalation, in danger, get out, and the sorts of words

[00:35:35] that would make you think of the fire that destroyed much of the original building where

[00:35:39] the Thurber house now stands.

[00:35:41] Definitely made me raise an eyebrow or two.

[00:35:43] Here's Leah and Anne with some of the other stories from over the years.

[00:35:47] Yeah.

[00:35:47] I mean, we've had all kinds of stories over the year.

[00:35:51] I keep this ghost history packet that I'm looking at right now, just scrolling through

[00:35:56] and trying to pick out some of the more interesting incidents.

[00:35:59] But in general, a lot of people tend to hear footsteps here.

[00:36:04] So often the writers who are staying up in the apartment, in the middle of the night,

[00:36:09] they will hear footsteps on the second floor in the hallway or on the stairs going up to

[00:36:14] the third floor or, you know, any stairs in general.

[00:36:17] So that's often reported.

[00:36:20] We've had a couple of people bring their dogs here and dogs that were not known to, you know,

[00:36:27] growl or be aggressive or anything.

[00:36:30] And one of them, the dog, you know, growled at some of the furniture in the parlor, wouldn't

[00:36:36] let her near any of it.

[00:36:39] Kept himself between her.

[00:36:41] Yes, that's right.

[00:36:42] I forgot about that one.

[00:36:44] Yeah.

[00:36:44] And then the other one, I remember the author was up in the apartment with the dog and the

[00:36:50] dog went out into the living room area and just started growling.

[00:36:56] And this was not a dog known to growl.

[00:36:58] And it was, you know, there was nothing there.

[00:37:01] So it was just very interesting stuff.

[00:37:04] We had one of our children's writer in residence.

[00:37:09] She was here in 2007.

[00:37:13] It was her last day here.

[00:37:15] She was getting ready to leave.

[00:37:16] It was, you know, early in the morning and she was, had come downstairs into the bookstore

[00:37:22] area, which used to be the dining room and was trying to walk through the doorway into

[00:37:26] the family room toward the front of the building.

[00:37:28] And she said that she came into contact with what felt like almost like a spider web or

[00:37:34] like a wall of jello as kind of how she described it, that just kind of gave her like resistance,

[00:37:40] wouldn't let her pass through the doorway.

[00:37:43] And eventually, you know, it kind of dissipated.

[00:37:45] But she thought that was, you know, very bizarre.

[00:37:48] That does sound very bizarre.

[00:37:50] Yeah.

[00:37:51] Yeah.

[00:37:52] And then, yeah, a couple of the things that Anne had mentioned with the EVPs that happened

[00:37:58] the night the ghosts got in.

[00:38:00] And I was actually in the building also on the day that Anne saw the orb in the upstairs

[00:38:06] hallway.

[00:38:06] And I remember hearing, hearing in real time their reactions to that.

[00:38:13] Um, and then Anne came downstairs to tell me what had happened and like, you could barely

[00:38:19] talk to me.

[00:38:20] You, you had definitely seen something.

[00:38:22] It was, it was pretty crazy.

[00:38:24] Um, did not, yeah, did not think for a second that you had not seen something.

[00:38:28] How did that feel though?

[00:38:29] To be right downstairs, mere feet away from where something remarkable like that had happened.

[00:38:35] Uh, felt pretty typical for me.

[00:38:37] I'm usually just miss it or, you know, it happens to someone else, but.

[00:38:42] Um, it's all good.

[00:38:44] At least I was in the building.

[00:38:45] Yeah.

[00:38:46] But, um, yeah, we've had a couple of other things.

[00:38:48] One staff member who's still here and has been here for almost, almost 20 years now, 18

[00:38:53] years or so, um, was upstairs in her office, um, one day when, which used to be in Robert's

[00:38:59] bedroom, um, and heard the clock downstairs chime and, you know, chime loudly.

[00:39:06] And it's not operational at all.

[00:39:08] I remember her telling that story.

[00:39:10] Uh, we actually had the, the show ghost hunters come here, um, in 2010 and she retold that story

[00:39:19] on the show.

[00:39:20] Um, and also when the investigators were here doing, doing their, um, investigation overnight,

[00:39:25] they caught on camera, the front of the clock face, the clock on the mantle in the family

[00:39:31] room opening by itself.

[00:39:33] Um, and I recently dug up that episode.

[00:39:36] It's kind of hard to find.

[00:39:37] Um, it's on season six of, of ghost hunters, but I recently rewatched it and it's pretty

[00:39:43] stunning.

[00:39:44] Um, just watching the clip.

[00:39:47] Um, it scared that cameraman or the guy with the boom.

[00:39:51] It scared him.

[00:39:52] Um, yeah, I was here for that.

[00:39:53] That was, that was a lot of fun.

[00:39:56] Well here, I'll, I'll just add onto that of, of how in the heck did that even happen?

[00:40:00] Um, one of the former directors in the middle of the night got a call from the house.

[00:40:06] There was nobody in the house.

[00:40:08] It was the middle of the night.

[00:40:09] Uh, no, no alarms were tripped, no nothing, but the, the house called her.

[00:40:15] Unbelievable.

[00:40:16] And then there was another time when Leah, you were not there this day.

[00:40:20] Uh, I was standing talking to the executive director and all of a sudden I felt like I need

[00:40:26] to not have my back to this doorway.

[00:40:29] So I went all the way into her office and sat on the little table or at the chair on

[00:40:35] the other side of the room.

[00:40:36] Cause I did not, for some reason I felt weird about having my back to that door in that second.

[00:40:40] And as that was happening, um, Leah's phone paged the director and it just went boop, boop.

[00:40:50] And then you just heard, you could hear downstairs, but nothing, Leah wasn't there.

[00:40:55] There was nobody else here or there.

[00:40:58] So, I mean, I don't know.

[00:41:00] Leah, your phone has had a paranormal experience and yet you haven't.

[00:41:05] Apparently.

[00:41:06] This seems very unfair.

[00:41:08] It is very unfair.

[00:41:09] I won't say that too loudly, but it is very unfair.

[00:41:12] Man, yeah, Leah, don't call down the thunder.

[00:41:16] The one thing that came to mind too, when you were telling me, uh, recounting some of these,

[00:41:19] uh, stories that these, um, uh, authors and residents have had is that I'm, I'm sure that

[00:41:28] it's a mixed bag in terms of, of these folks who actually believe in these types of things

[00:41:33] and those that don't.

[00:41:34] And yet, you know, all of them have had some sort of experience.

[00:41:38] So like what, what, what was that conversation like with what, you know, they're, they're telling

[00:41:42] you about something that happened, you know, during their stay.

[00:41:46] Sometimes they're, uh, they're a little hesitant.

[00:41:50] Uh, and sometimes they're like, oh my God, you know what just happened?

[00:41:53] It kind of runs the gamut, but, um, Leah, have you encountered anybody who just, well,

[00:42:00] the one resident who left the last week of her residency and stayed at a hotel because

[00:42:06] something scared her up there?

[00:42:09] Um, do you remember that Leah?

[00:42:11] Leah?

[00:42:12] That was before I started, but I remember that story.

[00:42:16] That's been told.

[00:42:17] She was not a believer.

[00:42:18] I do remember that, that she didn't believe in any of it.

[00:42:21] Um, but she didn't believe it so much that she left the last week and stayed in a hotel.

[00:42:28] Okay.

[00:42:30] Wild.

[00:42:31] Okay.

[00:42:32] Uh, so Anne, any, any additional stories that you've got?

[00:42:35] I know you jotted a few down.

[00:42:36] So what, what else have you encountered while there?

[00:42:38] Yeah, well, I told you the big ones that, that really, um, that really made an impression

[00:42:45] on me, but I can tell you a couple about next door, the Thurber Center.

[00:42:49] There are some people that say the Thurber Center actually is, uh, is more active at times

[00:42:55] than the house.

[00:42:57] Um, I know that one of the former, um, the grounds manager, uh, went in the back door.

[00:43:04] No, you know what?

[00:43:05] I'm sorry.

[00:43:05] It was not the grounds manager.

[00:43:07] It was one of our cleaning crew went in the back door of the house and saw a woman standing

[00:43:14] in front of the bathroom door.

[00:43:16] You can kind of see it right when you walk in the back door, uh, up into the hallway where

[00:43:20] the woman's bathroom is and said, you could hear that this person was trying to open the,

[00:43:27] the bathroom door, but couldn't make it work, but you could hear the door rattling.

[00:43:31] And then it turned around and looked at him and he just got out of there.

[00:43:37] He said, I, I could see through her and I got out of there.

[00:43:41] So there was that one.

[00:43:42] And then another time I, maybe it was the same, uh, part of the person from the cleaning crew,

[00:43:49] but they heard the doors slam from the top of, they went all the way down the hall, all

[00:43:59] the way upstairs, and then all the way down the hall, the hall upstairs in succession, and

[00:44:04] then back the other way.

[00:44:06] So like something was running and shut and slamming the doors as they went.

[00:44:11] Um, I don't honestly remember who that was, but I remember hearing that story and I'm like,

[00:44:16] oh my gosh, but we did, we've had ghost hunters in there that have heard children laughing,

[00:44:20] um, and, and other things like that.

[00:44:23] Well, an apartment building used to be on that site.

[00:44:25] So not only was the asylum there, then later on, it was an apartment building.

[00:44:29] So maybe some residual children playing, um, some things like that.

[00:44:36] Uh, I do know too, the, a couple of the residents up in the attic, um, one who brought her cat,

[00:44:43] the ghost enjoyed playing with the cat and she had a little, uh, a little toy with a bell on it.

[00:44:51] And sometimes, uh, Joey would be nowhere near the bell and the bell would be tinkling.

[00:44:58] Like something trying to, to get his attention maybe.

[00:45:01] And another resident had, she would leave to get up and go do something.

[00:45:05] She would come back and there would just be one letter on the whole page that she was working on.

[00:45:10] Like somebody had pressed a letter or the radio would flip on and off, you know,

[00:45:15] there's things like that, just like mischievous little things.

[00:45:17] Yeah. And that was in the, the, uh, the center or in the main house?

[00:45:21] That was, I'm sorry. I, I transitioned and didn't say that, but yes, that was in the third story apartment.

[00:45:27] Um, a couple of the writers in residence, uh, experienced those kinds of things.

[00:45:32] To bring this first episode to a close, I just want to say a huge thank you to the Thurber House,

[00:45:37] Leah Wharton and Anne Toville for being great hosts and being so gracious with their time.

[00:45:42] Thurber House is an absolutely stunning place to visit.

[00:45:45] Whether you're someone who appreciates the paranormal or just a lover of history.

[00:45:49] Part of these series is to highlight the fact that these amazing locations survive based on generous donations from people like you.

[00:45:57] If you can visit, visit, but if you can't, you can always make a donation to help with restorations and help keep the lights on.

[00:46:03] Here's Leah with some ways that you can do that.

[00:46:05] Our website, thurberhouse.org has a place where you can donate online.

[00:46:10] Um, we can also take donations over the phone.

[00:46:13] Um, you know, if you come to visit us and take a tour, we have a donation box here.

[00:46:18] Um, so any way you can think of, we, we appreciate your support.

[00:46:22] Um, any other things that, uh, are, are noteworthy that we should mention before we, before we go?

[00:46:28] Well, I'll just give a plug for James Thurber, uh, one of the foremost, uh, cartoonists and satirists of the 20th century.

[00:46:36] His work is timeless.

[00:46:38] He writes about relationships between men, women.

[00:46:42] He loved animals.

[00:46:43] He had a, what, 50 to 100 dogs in his lifetime.

[00:46:46] Um, and the house, uh, at 77 Jefferson is where that, that one story, the night the ghost got in, it's where it happened.

[00:46:56] It's in his book, My Life in Hard Times.

[00:46:58] There are other stories in there, but you can read him and, and his, his wit and his sarcasm.

[00:47:06] And, oh my gosh, it translates.

[00:47:09] It, it, uh, what, I guess, what am I trying to say?

[00:47:14] You know what I'm trying to say.

[00:47:16] I, it's, it's timeless.

[00:47:18] It's, it's as poignant today as it was when he wrote it.

[00:47:21] That's what I'm trying to say.

[00:47:23] Yeah, that's, that's beautiful.

[00:47:24] And, and there is a room up on the second floor that, um, didn't even know it was there initially that, that Leah, um, kind of led us on a mini tour through.

[00:47:33] And it's got some of his writing, some of his drawings, and it's absolutely phenomenal.

[00:47:36] It's a beautiful, beautiful place.

[00:47:38] And, and, uh, again, um, you know, can't recommend it enough.

[00:47:42] Please go donate.

[00:47:43] Thank you guys so much for coming on.

[00:47:44] Um, absolute pleasure.

[00:47:46] And, uh, we'll have all the information in the show notes.

[00:47:49] Uh, and hopefully again, hopefully people go out and check it out for the history or for the paranormal, uh, either one.

[00:47:55] Uh, but thank you guys so much for coming on today.

[00:47:58] Thank you so much.

[00:47:58] It was a blast.

[00:48:00] Thank you for having us.

[00:48:10] Thank you for listening to From the Void and the first in our three-part series on haunted locations.

[00:48:16] We'll be back next week with a brand new spooky adventure.

[00:48:18] So until then, don't forget to subscribe, leave us a five-star review, and share with a friend.

[00:48:24] Thanks for listening to From the Void.

[00:48:26] From the Void.

[00:48:26] From the Void.

[00:48:26] Thank you.